‘Front page of the internet’: how social media’s biggest user protest rocked Reddit::A mass user protest six months ago over technical tweaks had big downstream effects, and now the ‘front page of the internet’ is changed for ever

  • Excrubulent@slrpnk.net
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    10 months ago

    “We respect when you and your communities take action to highlight the things you need, including, at times, going private,” he said.

    They respect it so much they forcibly remove mods to make them public again. That’s so respectful.

  • foofiepie@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Despite these concessions, dozens of Redditors promised to stop using the site altogether without access to their favorite browsing apps. But according to data from the website analytics firm SimilarWeb, traffic has largely remained consistent to the platform, aside from a pronounced dip during the blackout

    Dozens of us!

    • PlantObserver@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      I wonder if thats because most of the traffic was just bots all along who obviously aren’t going to leave in protest

      • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        10 months ago

        Am I crazy or did the number of bots and ‘new users’ ramp up quite a bit around the protest also? Moderation was basically nonexistent, I would see obvious bots and trolls stay around when they would have been banned in no time before. I find it hard to trust any data on Reddit.

        • Possible_EmuWrangler@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          If I remember right, there was a spam detector bot or similar which I’m sure was third party and it either went off altogether or the project was suspended after accessing the API was going to come in.

      • Xanis@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        I literally use Reddit to fix Google Search results when I actually need an answer. At the very least I’ll typically find the starting string. Though that’s less due to the quality of Reddit and more because of its longevity.

      • kase@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Sometimes Lemmy pops up on my google search! That always makes me smile

      • krotti@sh.itjust.works
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        10 months ago

        I’ve often found removed responses, which is a good thing, just makes my quest to find an answer harder.

      • z3rOR0ne@lemmy.ml
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        10 months ago

        At least use a redirect extension that gives you an alternative, lighter frontend. Teddit might be mostly gone, but there are still Libreddit instances alive and active. And on Android, Stealth still works.

    • db2@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      The data is coming from the reddit admins, they have an interest in not looking like the idiots they are. Basically I call bullshit, I think they’re lying for the IPO that’ll never actually happen.

    • synae[he/him]@lemmy.sdf.org
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      10 months ago

      A third party website analytics company probably couldn’t track the traffic of the users who left in the first place- the whole ordeal was about unofficial apps and API usage.

      • khannie@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        That’s actually a great point. If everyone using the apps bailed it would be a huge number decline that wouldn’t register as even a blip on similarweb so it’s a terrible metric.

    • bdonvr@thelemmy.club
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      10 months ago

      Yep. Haven’t touched my account. Only time I go there is if a Reddit result is the only decent result of a search. But I don’t browse reddit at all.

    • kozy138@lemm.ee
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      10 months ago

      That’s probably cause the userbase was flooded with bots to make up the difference

    • Optional@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      The Granuiad has been pushing a lot of sideways shit lately. That’s a shame.

    • honey_im_meat_grinding@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      10 months ago

      A lot of which were good mods too. I’ve noticed a lot more racism and otherwise right wing posting being left alone/unmoderated since the protest, in the subs I used to browse actively - nowadays I just check in with them every now and then without an account and the intentional or not lack of moderation is making me want to stop doing even that.

      • glockenspiel@programming.dev
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        10 months ago

        Probably depends on your subs. Most of mine have went far, far left and have become a tiresome dog pile of virtue signaling from behind keyboards and screens.

        And I’m a leftist. There seems to be a huge difference these days in being a leftist and being a “this is now my only personality trait” leftist through which all views must be fundamentally filtered. Even non-political/non-social. It has made some subs unreadable for me, specifically my state and city subs.

        Edit: I guess where I am going with it is that the extremes are becoming more extreme and seeking out new frontiers now that moderation is light.

    • cole@lemdro.id
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      10 months ago

      I started an entire instance - https://lemdro.id - to provide a home to Reddit subreddits such as r/Android and r/Google Pixel (and other technical stuff)

  • Halcyon@discuss.tchncs.de
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    10 months ago

    Completely stopped using Reddit since they blocked third party apps in July 2023. I never accessed Reddit through other channels than smartphone.

    • qevlarr@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Exactly. This wasn’t a protest as far as I’m concerned. They shut me out. So I no longer visit reddit or moderate any of my subreddits. It’s that simple

    • QubaXR@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Yup. Both the desktop website and the official app are garbage UX. With no third party app option, I could not use Reddit even if I wanted to.

      • Womble@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        old.reddit is still usable, but I’ve also pretty much stopped using reddit since the blackout.

      • jabjoe@feddit.uk
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        10 months ago

        You can still get to the compact interface with /.i on the end of the URL. But they are making it harder and harder to not use their terrible default interface, which is clearly focused on ad delivery not UX.

        • QubaXR@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          None of the Reddit interfaces were ever any good IMHO. The service was only usable thanks to third party readers that redefined its user experience. Without them it’s about as pleasant as gopher.

          • jabjoe@feddit.uk
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            10 months ago

            Oh compact was just right for me. Fast and mobile friendly and not loads of space taken by pictures.

      • soupuos@sopuli.xyz
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        10 months ago

        RedReader on mobile still works. You can find it in the fdroid app store. There’s also rtv for a terminal reddit client on the desktop.

    • greencactus@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Just FYI, I can still access Reddit through the Infinity app on F-Droid on Android. I don’t have a clue why or how, but it works.

      • fifisaac@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Same, my version of boost still works for some reason. No idea why but it’s useful if I’m trying to search for something

  • e$tGyr#J2pqM8v@feddit.nl
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    10 months ago

    Completely quit Reddit. It’s a shame that the article fails to mention the fediverse as a new rising alternative in response to enshittification.

    • Resol van Lemmy@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      Windows is experiencing enshittification as well, but I still have yet to see anyone recommend Linux to me. The only mainstream device I know that runs a Linux distro is none other than the Steam Deck.

      It really is a shame that not many people are actually trying to use these genuinely great alternatives.

      • anosym@lemmy.sdf.org
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        10 months ago

        Windows 10 is for me like Infinity for Reddit was (now I’m on Eternity 🙏). As soon as Windows 10 is EOL it’s Linux time. I’m already getting used to it with VMs. Maybe even before that depending on how long my current device will last.

  • Godric@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    I used to be a daily Reddit doomscroller, but now I just vibe on Lemmy. I only ever visit reddit now to experience my niches that don’t yet have a community here, and that’s just to watch, not contribute.

    I look forward to the future, where communities aren’t corralled into one website, where different interests can be free of anything overarching.

  • Leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    10 months ago

    It is different. I had cause to go back a week or two ago to look for an old post of mine and I did have a bit of a poke about in my old subs too. It was like a war zone. Blatant no fucks given racism, incel level women hating, transphobia and ableism of the most vitriolic kind. And these weren’t just the massive general subs, some of them were niche interest subs where I felt I belonged at the time. Has it changed to become like that since June or was I just so used to it before that that I’d never noticed how toxic it was? Did I just used to shrug and say to myself ‘well, that’s just reddit’. Literally everyone seemed angry and hateful.

    I’m not claiming the fediverse is perfect or free from that sort of shit but either through the practicalities of federation, or better moderation or a smaller userbase or a more mature userbase or a mix of one or more of those things it doesn’t feel exclusionary to me. I often see on posts like this some people calling Lemmy a left-wing echo chamber and whilst I do agree there’s more people of a left-wing bent on here I think echo chamber is a bit much and is a phrase maybe used by those who live in a country without a functioning left-wing political party. I’ve not encountered a communist or tankie since Hexbear fucked off back to their kindergarten.

    As for the Guardian article, they’ve fallen into the same trap as I’m concerned the fediverse might fall into by federating with Meta - assuming high numbers equal success or victory. If you have corporate/economics based mindset I can see how that works, but to me success equals a popular, useful community site entirely free from algorithms and other forms of manipulative control. One that isn’t gathering data via ads and tracking on its userbase to sell on (lets remember that reddit weren’t upset that AI were scraping reddit, they were upset that the company weren’t seeing any money from that). A community that grows organically, with all that that implies - sometimes growth might be very slow, it might stop entirely for awhile, maybe even reverse - but the emphasis should be on the people making the community better.

    Reddit forgot somewhere along the way that it was the users who made reddit what it was. Look at the stats for r/askreddit - in particular the posts per day and comments per day - look at the trend since 2020. There may well be the same amount of users on reddit, but we all know a certain percentage of them are bots and even if they weren’t, just looking at those two graphs tells you everything about people’s level of interest in participating on reddit.

    The only thing high user numbers guarantee sites like reddit is ad revenue. Nothing else.

    • iknowitwheniseeit@lemmynsfw.com
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      10 months ago

      You say, “I’ve not encountered a communist…”, like that is a good thing. Let me fix that for you

      I’m a communist. Companies would be better off if they were owned by workers rather than rich people. You know, workers owning the means of production, instead of capitalists?

      Hopefully this hasn’t ruined your Lemmy experience!

      • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
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        10 months ago

        Yes, this is the popular side of lemmy communism. When people say they are bothered by Lemmy’s politics, that’s not what they are talking about. They are talking about tankies and campists who seem more interested in simping for shitty autocrats and making tyrants into folk heroes than engaging seriously with anything resembling contemporary political science.

        Basically, as a leftist, I am annoyed by the part which is legitimately indistinguishable from right wing trolls trying to make leftists look stupid, which is unfortunately a large and vocal part of many leftist communities here.

      • Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        10 months ago

        I mean workers could own the majority of company stocks and be the share holders in a twisted sense of communism.

        • discozombie@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Sort of along the same vein - as unions grew weak in Australia a different way to represent workers was needed. Industry Superannuation funds were created. Workers pay into these retirement funds which in turn invest in the companies. These funds now represent the investors interest in the companies the investors work at.

        • CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social
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          10 months ago

          There are certain kinds of market socialism that are intended to work this way I think, still have companies and markets and the familiar structures of a capitalist system but turn all the companies into worker co-operatives

    • ahal@lemmy.ca
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      10 months ago

      Well said! I agree with almost everything, except I still want algorithms. I think I’d say “free from algorithms that serve corporate interests” instead. Algorithms that help me find content I genuinely enjoy are sorely missed.

      • CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social
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        10 months ago

        I think algorithms can certainly be useful tools, but if they can somehow be made client-side, transparent in what they do, and customizable/replaceable, that would be ideal. In that scenario, they’d actually be working for the end user instead of the platform owner.

    • sndrtj@feddit.nl
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      10 months ago

      Wow, this stats website is interesting. I checked a number of subs I used to frequent: r/thenetherlands, r/idiotsincars and r/Europe . All of them see meteoric rice in subscribers, but number of posts goes down significantly since 2020-2021 (r/idiotisincars is the outlier here, you can clearly see the pandemic, but once it resumes the trend is downward again).

      • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        I just checked a couple old subs I used to visit. And the stats are very dramatic in the drop of actual content. So i tried to actually go to reddit to check. Something I haven’t done since opening my Lemmy account 7 moths ago. Somewhat surprisingly to me the stats actually seemed to reflect reality. One of the subs hadn’t had any activity for 5 months!! And it used to be reasonably active for a niche sub, with new content every day.

        I also tried to look at the most popular non controversial sub I could think of. Which is r/funny by subscribers, and indeed it’s ranked #1 since 2019, and that too had a dramatic drop in activity. https://subredditstats.com/r/funny
        From these stats, it really seems like reddit is dying, it’s going about as bad as some of the worst plausible predictions 7 months ago!
        The most notable thing IMO is that content doesn’t seem to be picking up again, but rather the decline continues.

        • wewbull@feddit.uk
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          10 months ago

          Take those stats with a huge pinch of salt

          Heads up! This data is likely out of date or inaccurate now that Reddit has decided to kill the open ecosystem that existed around Reddit. I don’t earn any money from this site, and if my calculations are correct it’d cost me a couple thousand dollars per month with their new API pricing

          You’re trying to measure the effect of something that affected your measurement system.

          • sndrtj@feddit.nl
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            10 months ago

            Even if you ignore the latter half of 2023 there is a huge and consistent decline in number of posts per day.

          • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Thanks, I wasn’t sure where the data came from, but I tried to check up on a few subs, and they were definitely not doing well.

    • CliveRosfield@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      It is different. I had cause to go back a week or two ago to look for an old post of mine and I did have a bit of a poke about in my old subs too. It was like a war zone. Blatant no fucks given racism, incel level women hating, transphobia and ableism of the most vitriolic kind. And these weren’t just the massive general subs, some of them were niche interest subs where I felt I belonged at the time. Has it changed to become like that since June or was I just so used to it before that that I’d never noticed how toxic it was? Did I just used to shrug and say to myself ‘well, that’s just reddit’. Literally everyone seemed angry and hateful.

      Am I taking crazy pills or something? Subs and users get put down HARD over that sort of stuff (See r/politicalcompassmemes). I haven’t seen content like that unless I actively searched for that sort of stuff due to morbid curiosity. Would you mind sharing the subreddit/posts in question? Not to deny what you’re saying but I find it hard to empathize without any evidence.

      I also don’t understand this infatuation with “old reddit” when that allowed subreddits like coontown to exist.

      • Leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        10 months ago

        I’m not suggesting hateful content wasn’t edited or removed, I’m saying when I went back there was a lot of it that had obviously just been posted. I’ve no doubt it’s mostly gone now if I went back and looked (which I really don’t want to do unless I absolutely have to) but my point is that it happens so much and so often that its often there for awhile if a mod or mod team is a bit slow off the mark. It’s indicative of the type of user on there.

        I also don’t understand this infatuation with “old reddit” when that allowed subreddits like coontown to exist.

        I guess when I think about ‘old reddit’ I mean reddit as it was before there were even subs or when subs first launched. Reddit was created by Digg users who were annoyed with Digg’s direction. There was a lot of hope and effort put in to it being ‘better’ - not just technically but also in terms of ethos. I’m the first to admit I stupidly just ignored the influx of bad subs like the one you mention or jailbait etc. But it’s become impossible to ignore to the point where it feels like its a constant drip-drip of hate content that mods are barely on top of.

        And even without that outright race (or gender, or sex, or sexuality etc) based hate, reddit just feels to me like there’s a constant undercurrent of aggression and sneering. Maybe, like I said before, it’s always been there and I was just so used to it I became inured to it but revisiting it after several months away it was impossible to not notice.

        • CliveRosfield@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          I was just so used to it I became inured to it but revisiting it after several months away it was impossible to not notice.

          Correct

      • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        “Old Reddit” generally refers to the design and layout of the page. You can find it by replacing the www. portion of the link with old. It’s a more user friendly layout for some people.

    • Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      10 months ago

      On occassion I also go back there and some comments of mine felt like were downvoted way harder than I felt usually about reddit.
      Granted they were bad takes but I felt like responses were way harsher.

      Lemmy feels more direct in a sense that the discussions are more fact based instead of the aspects you already mentioned.

  • EnderMB@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Despite spending around 15 years on Reddit, I found it surprisingly easy to quit. I do miss some niche subreddits that just won’t get traction here, but overall my switch to Lemmy worked out for the best.

    With that being said, Reddit is still going strong, and you’re deluded if you think this will change their IPO fortunes. The quality will plummet, but once the shares are owned and sold they won’t care.

    • someguy3@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      It will definitely affect the ipo. Ipo’s are all based on expected growth. Any loss of users, mods, content, etc affects that. It was already in the news that whatever company wrote down the value of their holdings.

        • ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net
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          10 months ago

          As a moderator of a fairly large sub over there, I strongly suspect this is happening on a mass scale. According to our stats, we’re getting 120k unique views a month (dropped dramtically during the exodus, but has seemingly returned to normal now), but posts rarely get more than 20 upvotes or comments. I know most redditers are lurkers, but even still, that just seems like an oddly high number of views.

          • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Give it time. Eventually the AI with learn to completely mimic human activity. Just not their actual spending habits.

    • Harpsist@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      I’ve been having trouble finding another site with so many sub topics.

      I’d use discord - but you have to manually find each room. There’s no generic search function (not that I’ve found on mobile anyway - feel free to correct me)

      If there’s another large site I could use (other then lemmy which lacks the numbers) let me know. I’m watching reddit die and I genuinely feel the void it’s leaving in my heart.

      • CallumWells@lemmy.ml
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        10 months ago

        Damn I hate Discord for information. It’s not open. It’s nice as a chat (except for the whole thing with using Electron), but not for having information available.

  • modifier@lemmy.ca
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    10 months ago

    In response to such critiques, Reddit spokesperson Rathschmidt said he did not “know of an industry benchmark for scoring content quality”

    Never before has the sheer inevitability of enshittification been so aptly summarized.

      • mosiacmango@lemm.ee
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        10 months ago

        And the concurrent point : "‘If we stopped testing right now, we’d have very few cases, if any.’

        If you dont measure your failure, no one can prove you failed. Its a win win.

  • iforgotmyinstance@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    I used to spend hours a day on Reddit, if you add up all the little time waster breaks I take just scrolling on Baconreader.

    Now i rarely visit the site.

    • viking@infosec.pub
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      10 months ago

      I had 3M karma over 4 accounts, and spent about 3-5h a day there. Been a daily user for 12 years, moderating some 1M+ user communities for 7+ years.

      Left reddit for good, never been back. Not once.

      I wasted so much time there that I took on a part time PhD to fill the gap, and I’m excelling at it.

      Thanks, u/spez… I guess?

      • wsweg@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        When enshittification hits so hard that it breaks your addiction and improves your life lol

  • _Analog_@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Author didn’t seem to have a clue. Many of us didn’t protest or leave because of the fact that they implemented charges for their API - nope, was totally open to that! - it was the way they started charging.

    I don’t think I’m alone either here. So many were open to paying fair prices for usage. But reddit repeatedly promised it’d be fair and reasonable. For months. And then when they finally dropped pricing info it was outlandish and would be taking effect before third parties had a chance to make appropriate changes.

    This amounted to a power play meant to drive mobile users back to the reddit app. Why? Money and control. Bad for mods, users, and developers, it was a selfish play I will never forgive them for.

    How did the author not know this, or if they did, why was it not front and center? Feels like they were parroting company talking points.

    • Ifera@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      And if you add how Steve Huffman(Reddit’s CEO, AKA u/spez) lied and manipulated information about the API talks, painting the third party developers as greedy, money hungry assholes, then got caught with his pants down when the recorded call was made public, shows how absolutely planned that move was.

    • VentraSqwal@links.dartboard.social
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      10 months ago

      Exactly. The app developers were willing to make changes but they didn’t give them nearly enough time to do it. They dropped the changes at the last-minute and then lied about what they and the developers said in their private conversations. Then they got mad at the Apollo dev for recording it to cover their ass. It’s like getting mad at your partner when you cheated on them lol.

  • merthyr1831@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Eh it failed in the most reddit way imaginable: Most of the users are too addicted to astroturf accounts posting heckin puppers and epic memes to organise a boycott beyond a few days. Reddit ownership knew how pathetic the “protest” was going to be from the outset and didn’t even bother trying to disrupt it beyond nudging out a few of the remaining holdouts on subs too small to matter in the grand scheme.

    All the mods who thought they were irreplaceable just discovered their users are all the more happy to digest low quality slop moderated by amateurs who are more interested in the title than doing anything to protect the quality of said content.

    People are even relenting and PAYING for access to the API to use previously-free apps.

    • DuckOverload@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      …and yet, here we are. I left Reddit recently because of the drop in quality, and a lot of folks I know agree that it sucks even if they aren’t yet tapped into the fediverse. The internet still has a lot of friction and inertia. These things take time. But the momentum has shifted. These social media cesspools can’t last, even the most idiotic knuckledraggers will eventually smell the stink.

      The downside is that they will find their way here. Lemmy will be bigger and less cool. Eternal September, am I right?

      • banneryear1868@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        I found in recent years the quality was hit by spammers who were basically regurgitating content from other social media sites and spamming it to whatever subs would allow. Even though they’d get banned they’d have like a dozen alts, all co-mods on the same subreddits, and just make new accounts to get around it. You’d report them for ban evasion and nothing would happen. It would be political spam too, like you’d have accounts posting to “antifascist” subs and red pill subs just so they could cover all the bases.

        Speaking of quality, it basically became the things your parents like on Facebook or Google Image results for “epic internet meme.” Political humor was reduced to AI images of angry Trump looking damp with captions like “oh no I’m going to jail.” For niche-interest subs it basically becomes people posting pictures of boxes of products they bought or asking which products to buy, people getting angry and debating about products and people who sell products.

        Case in point that Oliver guy who would sell his books and shit on his subreddits and respond to every comment with links to his own blog posts, sold anti-Trump merch that hilariously looked like it was pro-Trump, posted ACAB stuff but also made racist copaganda comics, pretended to be an enlightened leftist but also wrote a red pill book about how rape is natural. Guy got banned for harassing mods of other subs and got his network of 20+ spam subreddits and dozens of alts banned, but the admins don’t do anything when they try and rebuild their spam network.

    • McDropout@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      The pathetic-ness of the system stems within the fact that Moderators and Subreddit Creators cannot delete the Subreddits they created. I don’t know how we didn’t see this as a red flag.

      • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        /HFY did. A ton of authors including Hambone stopped posting there at all around 2018 or 2019 because we found out that Reddit was claiming that they owned our work, since we had posted it to Reddit, or something like that

          • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            Humanity, Fuck Yeah! It was a subreddit that focused on a subsection of Science Fiction, where humanity is frequently not the underdog at all.

            Hambone is the author of The Deathworlders series, also referred to as The Jenkinsverse.

            https://deathworlders.com/books/deathworlders/chapter-00-kevin-jenkins-experience/

            That “chapter” got posted and Hambone forgot about it for five years, then came back and posted a chapter a month for seven(?) years to turn it into a book. It’s a long book.

            He did this because at least three other authors wrote their own stories in the universe he created.

            Salvage (this one is only canon until Adrian attempts to “blow up” a black hole. Something like chapter 73 or so. Jennifer Delaney, the main female protagonist, makes an appearance in The Deathworlders)

            Humans Don’t make good pets ( Canon, but we never meet the unnamed main protagonist in The Deathworlders)

            The Xiu Chang Saga (Totally canon, and Xiu becomes one of the main characters in The Deathworlders)

            All of these can also be found as audiobooks, in varying degrees of completion, on YouTube. There’s also a guide somewhere as to when all this stuff takes place. A large amount of it takes place between chapters 0 and 1 of The Deathworlders.

          • ViperActual@sh.itjust.works
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            10 months ago

            HFY = Humanity Fuck Yeah! A place for writers to post their stories about humans being awesome. Many of them were sci-fi space operas which is what I loved.

            • Silver Golden@lemmy.brendan.ie
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              10 months ago

              I used to read there a lot on my phone. My main activity on reddit at the time.

              Then Bacon reader died, and I just stopped reading there

  • capital@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    I deleted a 13 yr old account due to spez’s fuckery and I haven’t been back. I used to be very active in several subs but now I want fedi to happen.

  • The_Vampire@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    On the note of traffic, I still browse Reddit because it has niche communities that I want to interact with. However, I don’t comment, post, or even up/downvote anymore. My interaction is now purely browsing, and I imagine it may be similar for other once-power users.