You mean your bullshit screed hating on public rail and showing your anti-homeless brainworms where you literally implied that “people don’t hate them enough”?
Also “boo hoo the ‘tankies’ (whatever that even means to you libs anymore) bullied me for supporting violence against some of the most vulnerable people in the imperial core”
lmao You have been complaining about this for FIVE DAYS holy shit.
I love public rail and took it all over the place when I visited Japan, I even still have the JR Pass ticket in my wallet. If I had one public transportation wish for LA it’s that every freeway have a light rail line like in the 105. As for the homeless situation I am all in for fully funded housing first initiatives and think we haven’t done anywhere near enough for them. That said, the unfortunate state of events between the LA Metro and the city’s homeless allows for some very problematic things to happen in light rail train cars especially during transit. I’ve seen quite a bit of drug use, littering, and even an instance when I had a taser brandished at my face only to find out a second later the guy was trying to sell it to me. I really wish people wouldn’t react so quickly to a post and start accusing them of being some kind of monster.
“they certainly don’t hate them enough to chase them away when they are smoking meth on the train” sounds kinda like you think that should be done and that the issue is people not hating the unhoused enough.
Especially when you come into a space that explicitly advocates for abolishing landlords and start saying that stuff, you should expect ridicule. Instead of complaining about it in other spaces for 5 days and repeatedly doubling down you could just do some very basic self-crit.
So whats your plan other then just let them smoke meth and steal from people obviously something needs to be done but putting your head in the sand and pretending there isn’t actually a problem won’t fix anything
A socialist state where housing is a guarantee and where poverty doesn’t lead to widespread drug use because it doesn’t exist. Also addiction recovery programs in the transitional state.
Why. What is yours, push them into a comically large blender? Or a prison, how about a prison?
Sure where people have wings and cancer doesn’t exist yes the communist state is so great you choose to live in the west
For as much as the news talks about a declining birth rate, you are aware that people are still born in the west, right?
“Move”
You knowing moving isn’t free and it isn’t easy for most people to get a job in a country whose language they don’t speak, right?
Furthermore, even if someone does move, then you don’t take it as proof they are a hypocrite but rather proof they are delusional, so your original claims is just bad faith bullshit.
Well apparently everything is free in the communist utopia of china I’m sure you will do ok as a white dude with no money in china
You know that real world socialist states don’t have a homelessness problem anywhere approaching the west, especially the US, right?
The only fantasy here is in your capitalist realism soaked brain.
Right the millions of poor rural Chinese living below the poverty line don’t exist sure if you pretend that the problem doesn’t exist it makes it easier to believe the ccp propaganda
Bruh do you have any idea how quickly I and so many other people here would pack our bags and move to China if we had the chance
Now I am not going to take the anti homeless side here but you did claim they were lying about living in LA for not using a local term for train.
I’m not the one that made this post but it would track with the general reddit-like nature of their other comments. It sounds like a very common thing I hear from reactionaries IRL that are clearly made-up or are hyperfixating on a hypothetical or outlier incident instead of just understanding that is not a failure of trains. Like the whole context was “sometimes trains aren’t good actually because I saw a mentally unwell person I have no proof is actually homeless.” Not all unhoused people look like the caricature most people have in their head, and not everyone that does drugs in public on a train is actually unhoused, though the latter is certainly a more reasonable assumption to make. The combinations of all these characteristics of this person it was clear they were engaging in bad faith at best, and outright lying at worst. I am not making a judgement either way but it is a specific sort of reactionary thinking that is encountered all too often in online communist spaces, and so it’s no surprise when people have short patience with this sort of thing.
If you’ve seen it enough you tend to get a sense for this time of debatebro and it’s rare that it’s a simple well-meaning misunderstanding because if it were it is very easy to have some humility. It’s the getting all offended by people laughing at something that is a textbook reactionary response, in a place where bullying libs and reactionaries is a pillar of its community culture. Furthermore going around other instances and complaining about said community sort of makes you fair game and I would not call it brigading, especially in a “what are instances you hate” thread, wherein the User compared us to right wingers. Which is itself a very tired very old trope known as “horseshoe theory”. And last but not least there is the term Tankie which is most often used to imply people on the imperial periphery or global south seeking national liberation are following a problematic ideology (because often the word gets used to refer to anyone left of Bernie Sanders on foreign policy a "tankie), which has deeply white supremacist or western chauvinist connotations.
So in short, does it really matter whether they live in LA or not? They certainly have a colonizer’s mindset with regard to their local community even if they claim to be for “paying for more social services.” That is like the core reason why social democracy and liberalism are derided as fascism lite by most communists.
You sure got a lot of context out of “they certainly don’t hate them enough to chase them away when they are smoking meth on the train”. I don’t think that was a great thing to say (not that it is not an issue and needs to be addressed) but instead of even trying some level of communication or rebuttal it seems like everyone just went full “reactionary” on them.
There is no “sense for this time of debatebro” or ability to see enough text to pull from that one sentence a sentence of endless fascism (or whatever problematic box). They have every right to get upset and go around other instances, because yours banned them. I have not seen a lot of humility here from anyone involved but what gets me is that some people think they get all the rights but others don’t.
Yes it does matter whether they live in LA or not as in one case they could be relating an actual experience they had and the other would be them spinning a web. In once case you could do some good and engage and for the other prove they where wrong and acting in bad faith.
Thank you for being a voice of reason MooPoo. I apologize if my original comment came off as callous and insensitive. I heavily sympathize with the plight of the homeless and my only problem is with those who can be a danger to themselves or others, especially in an enclosed area like a train. TBH I sympathize with ideologies that are beyond left of the American Overton window since I’m quite familiar with what Western countries have done to suppress them. Thanks for pointing out how they were the ones being reactionary without so much as giving a warning before the ban.
Nakoichi, I don’t expect you to unban me from your community but I hope we can at least understand each other enough to not see us as enemies.
You’re still sort of dodging the crux of the issue, you continue to place blame on the oppressed rather than engage with our comments and begin to grasp why the ultimate onus of responsibility lies on the oppressing classes. Let’s not get too derailed here (pun intended) from the original context: Your comments were a critique of public transit, followed by trying to back up that critique with a personal anecdote of a time you felt threatened by a homeless person. The responses to this barely surface level take that indicated influence by a deluge of reactionary propaganda were not out of line to make uncharitable assumptions about you, since we have had a large influx of bad faith arguments along these lines since federating.
I am not the one that banned you, and you’re right it’s not even in my power since I am not a mod of c/urbanism, but it should be a point of self reflection on why that is the route you took instead of being indignant about it. You’re the one that came into our instance and you might not understand what our rules fully entail or what reactionary behavior is but that’s not really our fault, I gave you a detailed breakdown of the reasons folks that post like this get banned so quickly and you might read it if you care as much as you appear to.
Hell you can still post on Hexbear if you aren’t site banned but you might try to start by asking good faith questions without preloading them with personal grievances. Or you can ask me, I’m pretty patient when I have reason to believe the inquirer is acting in good faith.
That said just be aware that civility is often reserved for people that have proven the latter so given prior engagement, just don’t expect people not to dunk on you for an exceptionally bad take. Ignorance is not always a good excuse.
Thank you Tolstoy, great novel.
I’m so glad you people are too detached from reality to actually start your ‘revolution’.
Go back to your Fox News
“I’m not anti-homeless, I just [anti-homeless horseshit]”
Is this a novelty account? lmao
Oh it’s YOU!
Hahahahahahaha
Holy shit lmao, you’re still on this?
It’s like driving past someone waving around an end of days convert or die sign, and then hours later passing by the same spot and they’re still there
Go eat some grass nerd
Oh no, not littering.
This loser didn’t buy the tazer.
LMAO what a loser
it looks like the only comments of yours that were removed were for making inflammatory comments about homeless people on public transport in a place you don’t live.
stay classy, hexbear
stay classist,
I love that y’all use that as an insult. It only carries any weight in your own echo chamber, you know that right? No where else on the planet (be it a forum or a physical space) does that mean anything. Well, maybe within north korea
If “on the planet” you mean primarily the U.S and secondarily the rest of the “west” while excluding the majority of humanity on the planet, then sure.
You’re so brainwashed and conditioned into believing you have more in common with some ghoul billionaire that values your life insofar as much as they can extract wealth out of you than your own fellow worker.
Obligatory comment that brainwashing is a myth rooted in orientalism and later pseudoscience, propagated by the US in order to make excuses for US soldiers defecting during the Korean War (et al).
I mean everywhere that isn’t China or Russia or one of their satellites/annexes yeah.
Not sure where you got the billionaire thing, I’ve never defended them, in word or action. (Living in a capitalist country and needing a job for resources doesn’t make me a billionaire apologist)
Liberalism and billionaire worship are not the same thing, same as communism and xi are not the same thing.
To be clear: just because xi figuratively leads a communist country doesn’t mean this policy is perfectly communist.
Same thing goes for billionaires existing in a liberal society.
Lastly, the existence of either doesn’t invalidate the tenets of either ideology
None of that makes any sense
Xi is no different than any other billionaire shit head most of the communist party top leaders use there position to gain control over the state controlled businesses
Tell me you know nothing about the PRC without saying you know nothing about the PRC
The cia literally called him redder than red and unable to be corrupted by money lmao
Xi first started geting so much hate from the west because he actually started purging communist party members for being too involved in the private sector. If he was encouraging the bourgeoisification of the CPC he would be hailed by the west.
We can agree on that
This is incoherent. Xi has administrative control (or influence) over state enterprises, but he isn’t getting profits or stock options from them, so there are no grounds for calling him a billionaire
communist party top leaders use there position to gain control over the state controlled businesses
This is like saying you became a police commissioner to gain control over local police cars. Yeah, an explicit part of your job is that you can direct them, but the claim is so tautological that it looks like you are saying something else. It’s not like Xi will retain control of these enterprises after he leaves office.
That must be why you felt the need to respond to it.
This is a message board, where we reply to each other.
By your approach: why did you feel the need to defend him? See? Silly.
This is a meesage board, where we reply to each other
My pronouns are right next to my username, and you still can’t get them right. Real fucking classy.
I literally can’t see them in voyager
maybe within north korea
Don’t worry, absolutely no one there is thinking about internet liberals, the DPRK lives rent-free in your head though
Lol yeah they’re thinking about the coming winter, or the reality that they aren’t even allowed to leave their country (for all but the most privileged) unfortunately
they aren’t even allowed to leave their country
This is true, do you know who keeps them inside though? The United Nations’ Security Council.
[…] the Security Council today further tightened sanctions on the country, severely restricting fuel imports and other trade, as well as the ability of its citizens to work abroad.
So when they cross the dmz are they loaded in a catapult and sent back?
Unironically hell yeah we do
We try our best
The hexbear promise is that anti-homeless rhetoric will continue to be bullied
Dude I was speaking from experience in that post. I live there and took the train daily. Do I need to show you my LA Metro card to prove it?
Post your credit card number and DLN while you’re at it.
So a mod didn’t like a comment you made which was interpreted as encouraging anti-homeless hate. Instead of just moving on you decided to make this about “tankies” despite no one saying anything about Marxist ideology, China, or anything related. I think you’re just looking to pick a fight with us because we’re dirty pinko commies or something.
That was probably a more level headed way to deal with this person than the way too generous effort post I just commented lol
Show a verification hog pic to continue posting
If this was reddit I would say that post belongs on r/confidentialityincorrect
You complained about homeless people you weasely little liar. Go cry about it on /pol/ or go back to reddit
homeless people are tankies actually
Quite authoritarian of them to exist without permission I must say
Our heroin.
This is classist. Most homeless people don’t suffer from addiction. Something like 40 percent are alcoholics and 25 percent use harder drugs.
oh my god it is the same classist guy
I experience the opposite. Whenever I criticise US government, I get attacked by hordes of cringy Americans.
I must say I had a pleasant conversation on workers’ rights in the US recently on c/technology (lemmy.world). By pleasant I mean “not being insulted because I live in France and workers do have rights so I’m a red commie” pleasant.
For the majority of Americans, as long as you are a pleasant person, you will have pleasant conversations, even if it’s about a disagreement.
A. This leads to politeness fetishists and tone policing. If someone says something offensive like “we should remove LGBT+ books from schools,” I’d rather shoot myself than speak nicely to that person.
B. This has not been my experience with my fellow Americans at all. I even saw a mod from lemmy.world post mod-flaired horseshit in their politics community about how “The US is not a racist country.” Fuck that.
Little do people know everyone is shit and your personality that is only based on ideologies makes you look like a moron. Yes we know there is unfairness in the world. But any “ism” won’t fix it.
“No Lives Matter” type beat
Little do people know everyone is shit
People who say this think they’re being world-wise when they’re actually just putting out a general warning about themselves
Yes we know there is unfairness in the world. But any “ism” won’t fix it.
Least of all quietism like you display
Doomerism be like:
OP: “public transport is bad because homeless people use it”
Gets banned for classism
OP:
THE EVIL COMMUNISTS ARE REPRESSING ME!![6 days later]
OP (still going after 6 days): “THE EVIL TANKIE COMMIES WONT LET ME TALK ABOUT HOW MUCH I HATE HOMELESS PEOPLE AND ARE POLITICALLY REPRESSING ME!!”
Recently found an anti-tankie instance you might like more:
Reporting you to allah
Let’s do a little experiment:
- Tankies are horrible
- Nazi’s are horrible
- The US is horrible
- Russia is horrible
- China is horrible
What the fuck is wrong with you? Why would you put an apostrophe there?!
(ahem, grammar and spelling Nazis are also horrible)
See what I’m going to do is I’m going to make the nazis look equally bad to all these other things. That way the nazi atrocities will look less problematic and I get to smear my enemies with a tainted term.
No I’m not a nazi, why do you ask?
I can’t believe it actually worked lol
you pushed back on my nazi apologia just like I predicted
Checkmate liberal
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Is wasn’t mine
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You’re trying to hard to see what you want to see in order to sound morally superior for Internet high fives.
It is clearly a half assed joke saying that if you call a group horrible, someone with get butt hurt and respond accordingly. Which in a round about way is exactly what you did. Any further reading into it is on you.
Just so you know, Nazis have used assertions exactly like what Zoldyck said literally since the day after the nazis were defeated.
One name for it is “double genocide theory” which is used to a) diminish the crimes of the Nazis/ even to the extent of genocide denial and b) equate fascism and communism (an absolutely absurd claim, to be clear. Ask about it if you’re unaware!)
This is not something we regularly go around doing, we are very careful with what stuff we call nazi shit. We’re careful not to make the word lose its meaning. This was an example of a common nazi/nazi-adjacent talking point, and we take it seriously when we encounter it.
Its just like “Blue Lives Matter” is thinly veiled racism. other examples include 1488, the 14 words, ‘states rights’, etc.
It is clearly a half assed joke
They may have thought it was just a joke when saying it, but the intent doesn’t matter, because they may also have known what they were doing and did it on purpose, because they’re a nazi/ nazi adjacent.
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You are a fool lmfao
“I pushed this object off my shelf and just like I predicted it fell to the ground!”
Good enough for Galileo
The fun is if you had made some point about something china or Russia related and HADN’T also mentioned that the US is horrible, you’d get dogpiled.
The US is horrible, leave me alone
You shat on homeless people and got rightfully called out for it. Take the L instead of crying about tankies
In the words of Knuckles the Echidna: “The communists are censoring you? Damn, I wish it worked. Shut the fuck up.”
this is fine marxists can handle a little roasting as a treat (ima marxist)
edite: lmao hexbear even has an emoji of this
- :prigozhin:
What is tankie?
Those who support authoritative regime. I think it’s the new commies. Tend to be used on those who are sympathetic to Russia and China.
It’s a term to distinguish between anarcho-communists and authoritarian communists (bolshevists)
The USA has explicit foreign policy doctrine stating that using strongmen dictators is important for anticommunism. The USA supports over 70% of the world’s dictators.
The USA also has the worlds largest prison population and uses them for slave labour.
The USA has been involved in many genocides over the years.
Are people who support the USA tankies?
No cause the US would have to even pretend to give a shit about its own populace and pretend be a social serving government, for anyone that supports the US in it’s current form to not just be an authoritarian pro-capitalist dick sucker.
No tankies like all that stuff but with the words “for the greater good” slapped on their ass while gargling authoritarian balls.
Russia is as not a communist state. No one on the left is supporting Puttin lead Russia.
Ambivalent KPRF noises
No, I am a tankie but I don’t support any authoritarian regime. I don’t support America or the EU for example. I like Cuba. They have laws mandating queer rights, women’s right, health care, strong democratic participation.
How do you identify as a tankie?
I only see the word used on other people, but never see some one use it on themselves
Around here it is pretty common. Easily. Most of the people who actually ever worked to improve society have been labeled tankies so it is a badge of honor.
What if I am fully sympathetic towards China out of those two?
I am sympathetic towards Russian fear of nato expansion but believe Vlad bungled so fucking bad he made things worse then ever at breakneck speeds.
Am I a tankie.
Theoriticaly yes. I mean ignoring the russian thing completely. China still has some serious large scale privacy and human rights violations. Alghtough arguably as with ‘woke’ in reality tankie is a meaningless term used to divide pepole between us and them instead of actually just discussing the actual issues.
And what are you doing with privacy? We have none here in the US and our lives are not really any worse for it is there? If anything the only time we see any privacy rights is when some one wants to hide how they are hurting us. Corrupt politicians and the like.
There is definietly more privacy than in china( Not that the issue doesnt exist in Us ,Europe or the rest of the world,but its not as bad ,you can get vpns or messaging apps that will tell the goverment to f* off or simply beacuse they dont collect any relevant data like signal ). Also you still left out massive human rights violations, arguably much more important thing .
What rights? To my knowledge all of those claims are made up by our state department to cover our genocide in the middle east and our funding and training far right extremeists.
Yes there’s no privacy in the US, and the US has numerous human rights violations, but China is obvioudly worse cus no freedom, inscrutable asiatics, tank man. Checkmate tankie
Something like half of Chinese people use a VPN and the state censoring western sites Facebook and Twitter is a good thing
:dracula: Just anyone that is to the left of you on foreign policy.
A welder who works on metal storage vessels, sometimes called tanks.
Basically communists who defend Mao and Stalin. (And sometimes, oddly enough, the current governments of Russia and China.)
It’s the liberal equivalent of “woke”
I’m gonna try and give an actual brief history. The word “Tankie” originated from a split in the Communist party of Great Britain in the 1950s, over the Soviet invasion of Hungary. Those who supported the invasion were called “Tankies” by those who opposed it.
That would’ve been it, and it would have faded into history as an obscure piece of British leftist slang, if it weren’t for the word’s rediscovery decades later, where more modern leftists used the term in a half joking way among each other.
At some point over… Really just the past couple of years or so, tankie breached containment, and has been worming its way into non-leftist people’s vocabularies, where it’s lost any and all connection to its original meaning.
So when, say, OP of this thread uses it, it’s unclear what they mean. Do they mean communists in general? Leftists in general? Supporters of China? What does it mean for a white, Western, leftist to ‘support’ China anyway? Is it just a general term for someone they deem Authoritarian? Or do they mean a specific kind of “Patriotic Socialist” who LARPs as a communist but actually holds deeply reactionary ideas?
It’s all very unclear. So I wouldn’t take “Tankie discourse” too seriously tbh. It’s just a thought terminating cliche at this point. If you want to talk about any of those groups mentioned above… Just be specific and dunk on who you want to dunk on. There’s legitimate, good faith, critiques to be made of all of them. Just make them, and be thoughtful about it.
But running around and calling anyone you don’t like a Tankie doesn’t foster good discussion. Especially when I have to sit down and decipher which one of 6 different possible definitions of “Tankie” someone might be referring to.
A nerd/geek who compulsively collects miniature model tanks, often obsessed especially with the famous Soviet medium tank known as T-34
What is a Tankie?
:abbie-cocktail:
A miserable little pile of secrets.
But enough talk …
Have at you!
:xi-reactionary-spotted:
Thin skinned bunch, aren’t they?
I don’t know what tankies are, and at this point I’m too afraid to ask.
Essentially a perjorative for authoritarian communists. The types of people who uncritically glorify the Soviet Union (and depending on which one you’re talking to, the Russian Federation as well), the People’s Republic of China, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, etc. Here’s a page on Wikipedia about it.
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Authoritarian communists, please see the second paragraph of this wiki article
Comparing yourself to Yezhov is worse than anything we’ve said to you
He doesn’t know anything about soviet russia. Yezhov, like Berjia is one that will be never reabilitated.
Tbf Trotsky also won’t be rehabilitated and I suspect OP would be happy to give us some Very Informed Takes on him as well.
Leon Trotsky (murdered in 1940) was rehabilitated on June 16, 2001 by Russia
What the fuck
Well, at least the Soviets never rehabilitated him. Who gives a damn what Federation liberals say . . .
I got banned from one of the communities for simply saying I thought both socialism and capitalism won’t work without more nuance and blending.
I always figured the snowflakes were really the far right… But no, it’s both extremes, apparently.
Socialism is just democracy extended into the workplace. Saying pure socialism won’t work is arguing against democracy.
I will always argue against pure democracies. People are not invested enough to provide a coherent opinion on 100% of the solutions our societies require for survive and thrive.
A vote over the use of chemicals for water treatment could easily end in their permanent ban. Hell, with the right malicious intent, someone could easily get dihydrogen monoxide banned from crop fields.
A pure democracy is how Idiocracy becomes a reality. Now, a mix, such as a republic electing the careful use of democratic socialism… Sure!
That isn’t how it works. It’s like if you’re a part of a cooperatively run business, then you get equal say in workplace practices. There isn’t a ‘boss’ dictating the rules to you.
The extremes of each ideology are surprisingly similar my friend
I honestly had no idea before I came to Lemmy.
I actually really enjoy a lot of the facets of socialism and communism… Most people would easily mistake my independent political position as “left”, especially since I strongly oppose the current GOP.
But here in Lemmygrad, I am apparently quite the villain for suggesting some extremist, far-left policies are toxic.
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I think people confuse “liberal society” with “liberal capitalism” and think if you have 100% socialism then you don’t even own a toothbrush or something
Communism is when no iphonevuvuzellaonehundredbajillion
