The trick is to always assume “China is lying about its internal statistics” and inflate whatever number they give by an arbitrary large percentage. 1.7M is obviously an under-count because the CCP is always lying about everything.
Also, you can do some broad brush “Everyone in Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, North Korea, and Taiwan are prisoners of the Chinese state, so actually that’s over 60M people” napkin math to make the numbers look better.
I think this is a good rule of thumb in general. When statistics agree with my preconceived notions, I consider them trustworthy, and if not, I assume that reality lines up with what I expect. For example, the referendum in held in the Baltics about leaving the USSR ended in favor of leaving, which I think is a good example of a trustworthy statistic. But the subsequent referendum in the remaining members ended in favor of staying in the USSR, and I think that’s a little suspicious, don’t you?
When statistics agree with my preconceived notions, I consider them trustworthy, and if not, I assume that reality lines up with what I expect.
I… thought you were being sarcastic. This is an obvious and severe flaw to have in one’s rational thinking.
prejudice (noun)
1. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions.
2. An adverse judgment or opinion formed unfairly or without knowledge of the facts.
Why would it be suspicious? Different members of the USSR had different national conditions, some were quite nationalist and opposed being a part of the USSR, some were more internationalist and wished to retain the Soviet system. In the following years, there have been many studies verifying that of those who lived through Socialism, the majority wish it had remained over the devastation Capitalism brought to the majority of people.
The opening of the Soviet Archives backs up these claims. If your pre-concieved notions about Communism are negative, I really recommend giving Blackshirts and Reds a read if you’ve got the time and willingness.
See now there you’ve made a crucial error. You’re recommending a book which, while it has some criticism of the specifics of how the USSR implemented socialism, on the whole it’s quite positive about the idea of establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat in general. Obviously that disagrees with my preconceived notion that humans are greedy, and that therefore capitalism is good, so I would never read a source that contradicts this, because I would have to dismiss most of it outright. And that’s just a hassle.
I don’t follow, the author being positive about the working class running society rather than privledged elites having dictatorial control a la Capitalism doesn’t mean you need to dismiss the facts it brings up outright. Are you saying that, as someone biased towards Capitalism, you dismiss any criticism of Capitalism and any positive opinions on Socialism outright? If so, I can’t imagine how you live your life in other areas that contradict your current understanding!
To return, I don’t at all believe it’s suspect that the majority of people wished to retain Socialism, and this fact is further cemented by this same general notion being repeated over and over again in polling.
Look, it’s like the scientific method, right? You start with a theory, and then you gather a bunch of data, and the stuff that agrees with your theory you keep, and the stuff that doesn’t you either dismiss outright, or you rationalize. I feel like I really can’t make my position any more obvious than that.
I appreciate your patience and your continued efforts to educate folks on this website, but I think you’re barking up the wrong tree here.
How can I say this in liberal-ese? It’s well documented that the majority of people who lived in the Soviet Union want it back. This is no surprise, 7 million people died due to the reintroduction of Capitalism, poverty skyrocketed, food insecurity skyrocketed, wealth disparity skyrocketed, prostitution and human traficking skyrocketed, and their economies were obliterated.
Doesn’t matter. I have spoken to people from the Soviet Union. I don’t personally need to be from the Soviet Union to read on its history, or the devaststion that came from its dissolution, and you saying you or someone you knew was from it doesn’t invalidate those I have spoken to and the research I’ve done. It’s lazy, anecdotes matter very little in the face of hard metrics and facts.
I wasn’t born in the Soviet union, but I have asked lots of more older people, all were negative, the best thing they said was that they built schools… and those were mostly the ones they destroyed, and have you noticed a pattern in .ml users which support what the Soviet union most if not all of them didn’t experience it or live in a place where it was you just glaze china, Russia and etc.
Cool, as I said I have spoken to people who look fondly upon it, as well as other Socialist systems. Plus, I have done a great deal of research on these systems beyond simple anecdotes. Marxists tend to support Socialist countries like the USSR, and I’m a Marxist-Leninist. I don’t just “glaze” Socialist countries, I contextualize them and give reasons why I support them, and why I want to create a system similar to them in my country.
In what way is the PRC “occupied China?” The people overthrew the nationalist KMT dictatorship, who then fled to Taiwan and murdered all of their opposition among the people that were living there at the time.
The trick is to always assume “China is lying about its internal statistics” and inflate whatever number they give by an arbitrary large percentage. 1.7M is obviously an under-count because the CCP is always lying about everything.
Also, you can do some broad brush “Everyone in Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, North Korea, and Taiwan are prisoners of the Chinese state, so actually that’s over 60M people” napkin math to make the numbers look better.
I think this is a good rule of thumb in general. When statistics agree with my preconceived notions, I consider them trustworthy, and if not, I assume that reality lines up with what I expect. For example, the referendum in held in the Baltics about leaving the USSR ended in favor of leaving, which I think is a good example of a trustworthy statistic. But the subsequent referendum in the remaining members ended in favor of staying in the USSR, and I think that’s a little suspicious, don’t you?
I… thought you were being sarcastic. This is an obvious and severe flaw to have in one’s rational thinking.
prejudice (noun)
1. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions.
2. An adverse judgment or opinion formed unfairly or without knowledge of the facts.
With much love and respect I ask you to please read the remainder of my comments in this thread.
oic. Carry on, comrade.
Why would it be suspicious? Different members of the USSR had different national conditions, some were quite nationalist and opposed being a part of the USSR, some were more internationalist and wished to retain the Soviet system. In the following years, there have been many studies verifying that of those who lived through Socialism, the majority wish it had remained over the devastation Capitalism brought to the majority of people.
It’s suspicious because it disagrees with my preconceived notions about communism.
The opening of the Soviet Archives backs up these claims. If your pre-concieved notions about Communism are negative, I really recommend giving Blackshirts and Reds a read if you’ve got the time and willingness.
See now there you’ve made a crucial error. You’re recommending a book which, while it has some criticism of the specifics of how the USSR implemented socialism, on the whole it’s quite positive about the idea of establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat in general. Obviously that disagrees with my preconceived notion that humans are greedy, and that therefore capitalism is good, so I would never read a source that contradicts this, because I would have to dismiss most of it outright. And that’s just a hassle.
I don’t follow, the author being positive about the working class running society rather than privledged elites having dictatorial control a la Capitalism doesn’t mean you need to dismiss the facts it brings up outright. Are you saying that, as someone biased towards Capitalism, you dismiss any criticism of Capitalism and any positive opinions on Socialism outright? If so, I can’t imagine how you live your life in other areas that contradict your current understanding!
To return, I don’t at all believe it’s suspect that the majority of people wished to retain Socialism, and this fact is further cemented by this same general notion being repeated over and over again in polling.
Look, it’s like the scientific method, right? You start with a theory, and then you gather a bunch of data, and the stuff that agrees with your theory you keep, and the stuff that doesn’t you either dismiss outright, or you rationalize. I feel like I really can’t make my position any more obvious than that.
I appreciate your patience and your continued efforts to educate folks on this website, but I think you’re barking up the wrong tree here.
I think you’re being sarcastic here but I’ll be honest, I genuinely can’t tell, so either a good troll or I’m being dumb, haha.
How can I say this in .ml-ese? Hmmm, try asking the folks who actually lived in those places.
How can I say this in liberal-ese? It’s well documented that the majority of people who lived in the Soviet Union want it back. This is no surprise, 7 million people died due to the reintroduction of Capitalism, poverty skyrocketed, food insecurity skyrocketed, wealth disparity skyrocketed, prostitution and human traficking skyrocketed, and their economies were obliterated.
Where you from?
Doesn’t matter. I have spoken to people from the Soviet Union. I don’t personally need to be from the Soviet Union to read on its history, or the devaststion that came from its dissolution, and you saying you or someone you knew was from it doesn’t invalidate those I have spoken to and the research I’ve done. It’s lazy, anecdotes matter very little in the face of hard metrics and facts.
I wasn’t born in the Soviet union, but I have asked lots of more older people, all were negative, the best thing they said was that they built schools… and those were mostly the ones they destroyed, and have you noticed a pattern in .ml users which support what the Soviet union most if not all of them didn’t experience it or live in a place where it was you just glaze china, Russia and etc.
Cool, as I said I have spoken to people who look fondly upon it, as well as other Socialist systems. Plus, I have done a great deal of research on these systems beyond simple anecdotes. Marxists tend to support Socialist countries like the USSR, and I’m a Marxist-Leninist. I don’t just “glaze” Socialist countries, I contextualize them and give reasons why I support them, and why I want to create a system similar to them in my country.
No, Occupied China doesn’t control DPRK or ROC
If we play that game we can’t trust American numbers either so the whole conversation becomes pointless
😏
In what way is the PRC “occupied China?” The people overthrew the nationalist KMT dictatorship, who then fled to Taiwan and murdered all of their opposition among the people that were living there at the time.