• Kidplayer_666@lemm.eeOP
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      1 year ago

      Liberal? They’re as extreme as conservatives who call communism everything they don’t like (cause they call everything they don’t like “fascist”)

      • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        I believe the comrade is making a joke about our politics. Not everything we don’t like is fascism, some of it is liberalism. But of course, we all know what bleeds when a liberal gets scratched.

          • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            What exactly are you seeing as pro-russia?

            As communists we’re staunchly anti-NATO and against the US imperialist order. There’s a degree of critical support for the Russian Federations struggle against NATO, but thats not really pro-russia, or at least how we would define being pro-russia.

            Similarly we have critical support for Iran in its struggle against the US led imperial order, and we support when they do things like engaging in trade with AES like Venezuela. Thats not the same as direct support for the theocracy there or all their domestic policies for example

              • PorkrollPosadist [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                Without NATO aid, Ukraine will just plainly be taken over by Purine Russia.

                The war would end, a whole lot of people would stop getting killed, and it would open a sliver of space to organize on class lines instead of nationalist ones.

                As it is, it is basically illegal to be a communist or an anarchist in Ukraine, and the country is under martial law with NATO-armed and trained fascist brigades doling out summary justice. Could it get worse? Why should the left advocate for people to die on the hill of a country which arrests communists, dismantles labor unions, and liquidates public infrastructure on internet auctions for foreign investors?

                If you take the most vulgar Anarchist approach, all states are bad, full stop. Political practice doesn’t even operate on that paradigm. You struggle to undermine oppressive hierarchical systems that you come in direct contact with through direct action. If you take the vulgar Leninist approach, the Proletariat should struggle for the overthrow of their Bourgeoisie (this would include the proletariat of Ukraine and Russia respectively, as well as the proletariat of Western countries which see this conflict only as a means to strengthen their military alliances and diplomatic positions). Of course, the situation is too nuanced to apply such a vulgar approach, but that should be the STARTING POINT for anybody who considers themselves anti-capitalists. You should be able to justify any deviation from those bedrock positions.

              • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                How does communism inform your perspective?

                NATO aid and their not allowing Ukraine to negotiate peace is what is prolonging this war. We aren’t arguing for all of Ukraine to become Russian territory, which hasn’t been the position of the Russian Federation either.

                We would like a negotiated peace that alllows the Donbas republics to leave Ukraine and join the Russian Federation as they’ve voted to do, and a promise for Ukraine to not become part of NATO. That senario is not the alternative you’re talking about, or what you’re implying we support.

                  • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    I don’t even know what this means because it has no grounding in reality.

                    They can’t negotiate peace because they are in a war? How is it possible to resolve this conflict in any realistic way if thats the criteria?

                  • ThereRisesARedStar [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    The quickest way to achieve peace is for Putin yo withdraw.

                    And then get couped and have the war continue under the leadership of a right wing hardliner

                    Please look up critiques of great man theory as it seems relevant to your line of thinking on this matter.

              • ComradeCmdrPiggy [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                What if I told you that in March 2022 the Ukrainians and Russians came this close to closing a deal that would end the war… that is, before the Ukrainians decided to accept effectively unlimited NATO aid in exchange for scrapping said deal?

      • NoSuchNarwhal@midwest.social
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        1 year ago

        Eh, it’s a lot like reddit.

        Two thirds of the rabid ones here are keyboard socialists. They type a good game, know all the stock phrases, but when it comes to actually doing shit, well, touching grass is scary.

        They stay inside and rant and rave about how things SHOULD be while we are out there actually making the incremental changes to try to bring it about.

        Then they post and pat themselves on the back for saying we’re not doing enough.

        It’s very clear that this is every bit the senseless, thoughtless, reactionary, pathetic echo chamber that t_d was, just with red flags instead of red hats.

        Thank you all for helping me to realize that so quickly.

        • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          They stay inside and rant and rave about how things SHOULD be while we are out there actually making the incremental changes to try to bring it about.

          Incremental changes like allowing abortion bans, trans bans, the cost of living to skyrocket, drone striking workers around the world, doing nothing about the climate, allowing millions of avoidable covid deaths for the sake of the rich… Oh and presiding over the restoration of child labour? Those incremental changes? Anything I missed?

          You’re useless. You are projecting enormously when you say we socialists only talk when literally everything is going backwards even when you’re in power.

          What do you even do anyway? Are you organising? Or do you just vote every few years and act like that means you do something? We organise.

            • Flaps [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              Me personally, I teach and make my students aware of the dictatorship of capital, imperialism, the profite motive… Basically marxism-leninism 101 on a introductionary level.

              Other than that, I’m active in the teachers union and volunteer in the local chapter of the Marxist leninist party tog et local projects of the ground, like extending the public transport network, social housing, and most important of all, talking with people about their problems, the rise of fascism where I live and how to counter it, as well as the current neoliberal line of thought in both local and federale government.

              What have you done?

    • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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      1 year ago

      Hexbear also has a large number of Putin and CCP apologists. Authoritarian bootlicking isn’t liberalism.

        • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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          1 year ago

          Pushing Native Americans onto reservations lifted a lot of European immigrants out of poverty.

          Burning fossil fuels lifted entire nations out of poverty.

          Campaigns against the barbarians lifted many Romans out of poverty.

          If you think this “lift” is some example of public good in action that hasn’t come at the cost of exploitation, you’re delusional.

          • RedDawn [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            Chinese poverty elimination didn’t come on the backs of any of those things you goober. “Well have you considered that sometimes OTHER countries did bad things to reduce domestic poverty, and therefore China doing so is inherently bad actually !?” Grow the fuck up, this isn’t a real argument.

          • Krause [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
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            1 year ago

            China lifted 800 million people out of poverty by building healthcare, transport, housing, jobs, education and food security? Heh, but what about that time European settlers got richer by genociding Native Americans? Technically that was “poverty reduction” too, commie smuglord

      • American_Badass [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        I thought this exact thing, but the more I learned about them, it turned out to really not be true. While there is a kind of meme culture there of asking Xi to nuke the town they’re currently residing in, and pointing out all of the white supremacist symbols used by the Ukraine’s army or whatever, there is a deeper context for it.

        They don’t necessarily support every move these people make and particularly in regards to Putin there is a lot of criticism towards his social stances.

        They’re more looking at this through the lens of what a nato conflict is causing in terms of a more multi-polar world and also Russia turning away from the neoliberalism that has dominated it since the fall of the Soviet Union.

        Not saying you have to agree with it. I’m more of a centrist myself, but it’s really not fair to say this as a blanket statement with no context.

      • AcidMarxist [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        All governments are authoritiarian. They have the authority to tax you and can do that cuz they have a monopoly on violence. But if you have “HUMAN RIGHTS” written on a piece of paper in your capital building that basically makes you a democracy, right?

        • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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          1 year ago

          All governments are authoritiarian.

          This argument is essentially “words have no real meaning”. Having authority does not make a government authoritarian. The term authoritarianism is defined. The CCP is authoritarian, by definition, starting with (but not ending with) having only one political party.

          • Flinch [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            1 year ago

            The CCP is authoritarian, by definition, starting with (but not ending with) having only one political party.

            China has 8 other political parties in its congress xi-lib-tears

            also it’s officially the CPC (Communist Party of China), not the CCP stalin-approval

            • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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              1 year ago

              Mmmhmm, and how many of those tiny parties have any functional political power? When was the last time that a non-CCP member led the PRC?

              Oh right, never. These other parties are tokens. Period.

              • AcidMarxist [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                America. This is America. It’s the same picture. America does the same thing but in a different fashion. Please at least admit America is authoritiarian. Why not? I’m a principled maoist, but this makes me want to burn down Walmarts anarxi

              • robinn2 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                1 year ago

                The parties represent interests separate from and under the CPC, which is one of the largest political parties on earth and comprises of a tenth of the eligible population in China. The CPC is the party which represents the majority interests of the population, of which mas multiparty organization would merely atomize and undermine socialization.

                Also stop saying ‘CCP’; you are illiterate lmao.

                • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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                  1 year ago

                  you are illiterate lmao.

                  Since this is demonstrably not the case, I have to assume that you don’t know what the word means, which is somewhat ironic…

                  • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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                    1 year ago

                    He is using it as an insult, and as a way to convey that you do not comprehend the text you are reading. He does not mean it literally, but figuratively. This is really basic-level communication, but sometimes it can be difficult to parse tone - Please indicate if you need tone signifier for communication.