• HerbalGamer@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    oh it’s a real thing, it’s the fascist base

    Please explain what exactly you mean by that?

    Are they not simply misinformed comrades-to-be?

    • LinkedinLenin [any, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      From a materialist lense, middle class usually refers to the small business owners, landlords, etc. Petty bourgeoisie basically. They historically tend to welcome fascist ideology out of fear of losing their privileged position in society.

      So there’s a difference between the working person who might get caught in a false consciousness versus the tenuously well-off person who’s somewhat class conscious. The latter is likely a lost cause more often than not. The former can often be reasoned with if we can speak to their experiences as a worker and cut through the spectacle.

      But yeah the Liberal use of the term “middle class” as someone occupying arbitrary income brackets is an immaterial abstraction with very little utility for either prediction or description.

      • HerbalGamer@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        In my mind it’s always comes down to a very simple question: Do they have to work for someone, or does someone work for them? If the first is true, they’re working class, if the second, they’re capitalist class, aka ruling class.

        There is no middle class.

        • LinkedinLenin [any, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          Eh I just don’t think there’s much utility in being so strict with categories. That’s fine as a shorthand though, and for explaining to coworkers who aren’t familiar with the theories.

          But the point of a material analysis is to, well, analyze. What are people’s material interests? How do those interests shape a person’s revolutionary or reactionary potential?

          Rather than try to illustrate it myself with made-up examples, I’m gonna delete the paragraph I wrote and just post an actual material analysis from history

          • HerbalGamer@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            I just don’t think there’s much utility in being so strict with categories

            The whole point is that we’re fighting amongst ourselves about what basically amounts to comfort levels for the most of us, while we should all look at each other as comrades to stand with against those that are actively taking advantage of all of us plus the rift we’ve created between ourselves.

            • LinkedinLenin [any, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              I agree with the sentiment, but please do read the essay I linked. It really changed the way I thought about things.

              It’s very much about strategizing and analysis, not moralizing or dividing or anything like that.

    • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Maoist Third Worldists make a strong case for bourgeoisification.

      I think that’s changing as the American empire declines, but for a long time the “middle class” directly benefitted from the superexploitation of the 3rd world. It’s how their middle incomes could afford so much.

      • HerbalGamer@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        It’s how their middle incomes could afford so much.

        Only because it’s widely thought that their incomes had to come from exploiting those beneath them, instead of taking it back from those above.

        You’re being exploited by someone who tells you that’s what it takes and you just have to look below for someone less fortunate than yourself and exploit them. Instead we should come together with those less fortunate and collectively turn our attention to those who have been exploiting all of us to take it back instead of fighting the puppet on the other hand.

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Their own lives were comfortable and easy in the middle class. Risking it all for revolution to help other people is not in their class interests.

          The middle manager is still being exploited by the CEO, sure, but lets not pretend like the middle manager is a potential revolutionary. How much better could their life actually get? They have a home, vacation, healthcare, education, leisure time, and all the toys they can buy.

          But! Like I said, as the American empire declines that changes drastically. Without cheap 3rd world labor to superexploit and with the decline of their own middle incomes, they’ll quickly find their comfortable and easy lives disappearing. Suddenly the middle manager isn’t so different from the rest of us down in the dirt, and the CEO will still be raking in millions and billions off of their labor.

          Once bourgeoisification is reversed, the middle class ceases to exist.