Toyota wants hydrogen to succeed so bad it’s paying people to buy the Mirai::Toyota is offering some amazing deals for its hydrogen fuel cell-powered Mirai. That is, if customers can find the hydrogen to power it.

  • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    20
    arrow-down
    6
    ·
    edit-2
    8 months ago

    Hydrogen cannot be greener than an EV, because it’s just an EV with more steps. It’s energy intensive to turn electricity + water to hydrogen, transport it, pump it, then convert it back to electricity.

    The losses from simply running electrons through a wire are very small.

    It is physically impossible for hydrogen cars to ever be as green as EVs. In order to do so you’d have to break laws of physics.

    E: ok people. You live in your little fantasy world where thermodynamics aren’t a thing.

    • desconectado@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      8 months ago

      There are laws of thermodynamics and there are laws of kinetics.

      Fuels have much more power density than batteries. You can’t deliver power as fast with a battery compared to a fuel. It doesn’t matter if thermodynamically one is more efficient or greener than the other. You would be crazy to suggest moving an airbus with a battery, that’s physically impossible.

      I’m a researcher in both fields (batteries and hydrogen)

      • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        8 months ago

        Sure, but I’m not talking about jets, which yeah, do need a far greater energy density than batteries can currently provide.

    • FiskFisk33@startrek.website
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      8 months ago

      It is physically impossible for hydrogen cars to ever be as green as EVs. In order to do so you’d have to break laws of physics.

      In a pure fuel comparison sure, does that still hold true when you also factor in manufacturing?

      The losses from simply running electrons through a wire are very small.

      You conveniently forgot about battery charging and discharging losses.

      • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        8 months ago

        In a pure fuel comparison sure, does that still hold true when you also factor in manufacturing?

        Yes.

        You conveniently forgot about battery charging and discharging losses.

        I didn’t. Those are very small. Compared to the losses of a HFCEV or even worse, a combustion hydrogen car.